32 replies to this topic

[ehathgepiurhe]

Just for laughs, I download the Developer Preview of Windows 8 that Microsoft released a few of days ago (http://msdn.microsof...s/windows/home/) and installed it to a VM to take it for a whirl. The first and only thing I've loaded so far after the OS itself is Zoom - just to see if it runs. Keep in mind that there will be many changes to the new OS before it is released, and I was running what is essentially an Alpha OS on a VM. That means performance is not going to be the greatest. Zoom itself runs, that is the good news. The Install Center components install as well. There might be a small issue with the installation through Install Center and the prompts you receive (or don't receive in this case), but I'd have to check that against a proper Install Center install to make sure (basically half the components in Install Center do not show a progess dialog, making you wonder if Install Center has frozen - I don't seem to remember that as the normal thing but my memory may just be faulty). Video performance was not outstanding, but that doesn't worry me at the present. Alpha OS, through a VM with non-accelerated graphics - yeah, that could be the problem

I haven't yet tried pinning Zoom to the new start screen (you no longer boot into the Windows desktop, instead you are offered a screen like you would see on a device with a touch screen, with icons, an app store and whatnot - the traditional desktop is now considered just another app that you have to load manually if you want to use it) to see if that works, but Zoom is listed way way off to the side of the screen (you have to scroll to get there, even on a 1920 wide monitor).

Still, though it was not an in-depth test by any means (and wasn't meant to be), the basics of Zoom seem to work, which is nice

ehat

[Shadrach]

you no longer boot into the Windows desktop, instead you are offered a screen like you would see on a device with a touch screen, with icons, an app store and whatnot

Eugh... another dumbing down of the OS for the sake of "user friendliness", AKA "letting your grandmother use computers"... and leaving anyone technical clueless how to find the actual files and settings whenever it breaks (and it still does)!

At least I hope you can get a proper desktop back. Anyway, I waited 2+ years to go from XP to 7 so I have no problem waiting for this

[ehathgepiurhe]

I predict the removal of the booting into the traditional desktop is going to be the biggest hurdle they face getting people to adopt this. This is a good article on the subject I think. It is called "Windows 8 and the marginalization of geeks":
http://techreport.co...ussions.x/21654

My favourite line from it is this one:
"I think those people will cling to Windows 7 for their dear lives as long as humanly possible."
From what I have seen on Win 8 thus far, I will be one of those.

Win 8 is designed for touch screen devices, and the notion of the traditional desktop PC has been thrown out with it. People used to the desktop are going to have a hard time with this - you boot up to the Metro (which is what they call the new interface) start screen. All the icons are there (not anything you've installed of course, but stuff Microsoft wants you to see, see screenshot below), you click the desktop icon (or Microsoft would prefer that you touch the icon that you want to run, I should say). You are taken to the traditional Windows desktop. You then click the Start button to open up another program...and you are taken back to the Metro start screen. Yes, the Start menu is no longer as well.

When you first boot Metro, you see a simple screen:
http://img13.imagesh...272/snap056.jpg

To get anywhere from here, you heed to click your mouse, hold and then drag the screen downwards. Yes, the 'swipe' (I believe it is called) thing you do with an iPhone...on your desktop. And yes, it feels as awkward doing it with a mouse as it sounds

That will then lead you to this screen:
http://img196.images...967/snap057.jpg

Hooray, you can now logon! Once you do, you get Metro:
http://img828.images...142/snap058.jpg
Notice all the stuff you don't need or won't use?

What you can't see is the scrollbar down the bottom. Mouse over it, and then scroll wayyyyyyyyyyyyy over to the right, and you finally see your applications:
http://img190.images...508/snap059.jpg

Clicking the Desktop app icon will take you to the traditional desktop:
http://img585.images...264/snap060.jpg

Shutdown is now a 10 step process (slight exaggeration, but not by much). From the desktop, you click the Start button to return you to Metro. You then click your username and then 'Logoff'. At that point in time, you hold and drag ('swipe') the screen again (the screen is the same one you see when you first switch on your PC and it boots to Win 8 - Snap056 above), then click the Shutdown button, and finally you see the 'Shutdown' option.


Oh, and this is the new Blue Screen of Death (which has also received an overhaul):
http://news.cnet.com...-gets-sad-face/

Yes - it gets a sad face icon and has all the other information removed.

ehat

[ehathgepiurhe]

Something that will likely impact on Zoom:
http://blogs.msdn.co...-windows-8.aspx

DVD playback decoders will no longer be included with Windows when Windows 8 is released. Instead, if you want DVD playback from Microsoft, you will have to pay for the Windows Media Center update. Zoom uses Microsoft's DVD navigator by default - there is an open source navigator out there, but it is still a work in progress and Zoom doesn't support it yet, and the other navigators listed in Zoom currently are all outdated and/or not functional. The article also mentions that the update will include VOB playback - so Zoom might be affected in media mode as well (I'm not 100% sure of this one).

ehat

Edit: They have added a FAQ:
http://blogs.msdn.co...-windows-8.aspx

Edited by ehathgepiurhe, 05 May 2012 - 08:03 AM.
FAQ Link

[ehathgepiurhe]

The Release Preview of Win 8 has landed:
http://windows.micro...S/windows-8/iso

This is basically the RC (despite what Microsoft state on the webpage), so if anyone is interested in how their systems will work with it, this is the version to test.

ehat

[ehathgepiurhe]

The RTM version of Win 8 has been available on MSDN and Technet for the last couple of weeks (general release date is 26 October). I don't have any intentions of installing it on my systems at this point in time, but for Zoom Player testing purposes, I setup a VM with Win 8 RTM on it today.

I'm using VIrtualBox (latest stable version 4.1.20) to run the VM - a tip for anyone else attempting this using the current stable version of VirtualBox. Do not install the associated 4.1.20 VirtualBox 'Guest Additions' for your Win 8 VM. They are not yet really compatible with Win 8. The VirtualBox dev's have only recently started serious work on making VirtualBox compatible with Win 8, and they haven't quite nailed it as yet. There is a new RC version of VirtualBox available which apparently greatly improves Win 8 support (according to the forums anyway), but I don't know the timeframe for its release as a stable version, and as I haven't tried it myself, I don't know if it actually fix some of the issues.

Symptoms when you install the Guest Additions include Internet Explorer crashing when it tries to display a webpage, major lag when trying to right click (so you right click a tile on the Start screen, and the click does not register for another 1-2 minutes), and screen flicker (I had the first two, but all three have a number of reports on the VirtualBox forums). Uninstalling the Guest Additions restored my VM to proper behaviour thankfully, but I just wanted to put this out there for anyone attempting the same.

(Booga - would this thread be more suited to the 'Third Party Software' forum, where the Win 8 App Store thread currently resides?)

ehat

[nx6]

Funny enough. I think I'd rather keep using the Release Preview version than the actual RTM version. I still get the Aero Glass interface and Windows wont ignore/edit my Hosts file like the final version can. /snarky

[ehathgepiurhe]

and Windows wont ignore/edit my Hosts file like the final version can. /snarky

Technically, that is Windows Defender, not Windows itself (Microsoft Security Essentials does the same thing). Point taken though - if it works for you, no need to update

ehat

[nx6]

I'll have to downgrade to Windows 7 (and buy a copy). The RP version wont keep running long after the final Win8 release, and I can't play back 1080p smoothly on Windows XP-64.

Shutdown is now a 10 step process (slight exaggeration, but not by much). From the desktop, you click the Start button to return you to Metro. You then click your username and then 'Logoff'. At that point in time, you hold and drag ('swipe') the screen again (the screen is the same one you see when you first switch on your PC and it boots to Win 8 - Snap056 above), then click the Shutdown button, and finally you see the 'Shutdown' option.

LOL

• From the Desktop, mouse over to the top or bottom-right corners. The "charms" icons will appear along the right screen edge.
• Click the Gear icon at the bottom - the Settings sidebar appears.
• Click the Power icon in the bottom group - choose "Shut down".

[ehathgepiurhe]

LOL

• From the Desktop, mouse over to the top or bottom-right corners. The "charms" icons will appear along the right screen edge.
• Click the Gear icon at the bottom - the Settings sidebar appears.
• Click the Power icon in the bottom group - choose "Shut down".

Nice - much quicker than the way I was doing it. Thanks nx6!

(Though they have removed the idiot screen-swipe from the RTM in the steps I originally described, it is a single mouse-click now)

[nx6]

(Though they have removed the idiot screen-swipe from the RTM in the steps I originally described, it is a single mouse-click now)

You can just hit the ctrl key to "roll up" the lock screen as well. I like the Win8 lock screen. I changed the image on mine to this, though:

[ehathgepiurhe]

I changed the image on mine to this, though:

Very classy - I like it

ehat

[ehathgepiurhe]

Well, Win 8 is now generally available - it will be interesting to see what the uptake rate of it is. Will it be a Windows 7 (well received by users), or a Windows Vista (a bit of a disaster)? We'll see.

I wasn't planning to use it outside a VM, but with the upgrade offer of 'Win XP/Vista/Seven to Win 8 Pro for $39.99 USD" (http://windows.micro...-US/windows/buy - download version, the physical CD version is $69.99), it is tempting (my Win 7 is a Technet version, and I am not renewing my Technet subscription at the end of this year - so this offer is a nice way to get a cheapy version of the OS). I will have to have a think about it.

Here is a good review of it from Ars - this one mainly concentrates on the interface (single most important change in Win 8 after all), but follow up articles will cover things like performance, other features etc:
http://arstechnica.c...w-of-windows-8/

DVD playback decoders will no longer be included with Windows when Windows 8 is released. Instead, if you want DVD playback from Microsoft, you will have to pay for the Windows Media Center update.

For a limited time only, Win 8 Pro users can get this free (normal price is $9.99 USD or $14.99 USD I think), simply by giving your email address to Microsoft (whether they will use it for anything other than emailing you the activation key for the pack remains to be seen - though the disclaimer at the bottom of the page implies that this is the only use they have for your email).
http://windows.micro...8/feature-packs

[nx6]

Well, Win 8 is now generally available - it will be interesting to see what the uptake rate of it is. Will it be a Windows 7 (well received by users), or a Windows Vista (a bit of a disaster)? We'll see.

I wasn't planning to use it outside a VM, but with the upgrade offer of 'Win XP/Vista/Seven to Win 8 Pro for $39.99 USD" (http://windows.micro...-US/windows/buy - download version, the physical CD version is $69.99), it is tempting (my Win 7 is a Technet version, and I am not renewing my Technet subscription at the end of this year - so this offer is a nice way to get a cheapy version of the OS). I will have to have a think about it.

There was a deal for a boxed upgrade from Staples, shipped free, for the same price and I stupidly didn't take advantage of it when it appeared yesterday. It's sold out now.

DVD playback decoders will no longer be included with Windows when Windows 8 is released. Instead, if you want DVD playback from Microsoft, you will have to pay for the Windows Media Center update.

For a limited time only, Win 8 Pro users can get this free (normal price is $9.99 USD or $14.99 USD I think), simply by giving your email address to Microsoft (whether they will use it for anything other than emailing you the activation key for the pack remains to be seen - though the disclaimer at the bottom of the page implies that this is the only use they have for your email).
http://windows.micro...8/feature-packs

That's pretty good. Sent that link to a friend who upgraded yesterday. But I wonder it it's really necessary. I mean, I don't use WMP for DVD playback anyway (I just use my blu-ray player) but do we even need Microsoft's DVD playback for Zoom Player? I'd sooner use MPC or VLC for DVD playback over WMP really.

[ehathgepiurhe]

But I wonder it it's really necessary. I mean, I don't use WMP for DVD playback anyway (I just use my blu-ray player) but do we even need Microsoft's DVD playback for Zoom Player? I'd sooner use MPC or VLC for DVD playback over WMP really.

That's the thing I really need to check. Decoding would be fine - we have a number of choices for that (ffdshow, LAV, DScaler etc). My concern was that without that pack installed, we wouldn't have the Microsoft DVD navigator, which would make DVD playing in Zoom very difficult. If you look in the DVD navigators section in Zoom's options, you will see that we are much more limited in choice than the decoders. The majority of the entries there are no longer available.

Zoom 8.5 adds support for dslibdvdnav, which is good - but being an alpha, it needs some polishing when compared to the Microsoft navigator (e.g. dslibdvdnav won't work with Macrovision protected disks - which is the majority of disks - unless you remove the protection first, unlike the Microsoft navigator, which works without having to remove the protection). I hope I am wrong - and even without that pack, Win 8 includes the DVD navigator. If it didn't inlcude the navigator, there would be no effect on VLC, as it includes its own DVD navigator I think. It may effect MPC though - I believe it still relies on the MIcrosoft navigator, unless you manually add another one (such as dslibdvdnav).

We just basically need someone with a Win 8 install without that DVD pack to load a DVD and try and play it in Zoom and see whether it works or not. If it plays fine and they can navigate the menus, we're good - and you would only need that pack if indeed you wanted to use WMP.

ehat

[napaHouk]

Hi guys. I read the FAQ, I search through topics but can't find a solution to resolve the problem. I've bought Windows 8 Pro and installed Zoom today. The installation of the player and the filters/codecs completed successfully. I was manipulating with preferences and I got a bug. The bug appeared when I tried associate Zoom with video file formats. Whatever i changed it wasn't applied. It asked me to associate all these formats with Zoom and I answered "Yes" and after it tell that associations was linked successfully and i press OK but options don't save. I think the problem is in the new paranoid OS from microsoft which forbidden a lot of stuff. Can you please help me or show the way where I can find solution?

[ehathgepiurhe]

Hi napaHouk,

Just quoting myself from another thread (which you would not have been able to find from the search function, as it is in the closed forum).

Begin quote:

"Something else that may cause some issues with Zoom and Win 8 - changes to the file associations model:
http://msdn.microsof...7(v=vs.85).aspx

Apps are no longer able to programmatically set themselves as the default handler for a file type or protocol.

It doesn't look as though they can even query that information any longer."

End quote.

I really need to chase up bLight and ask him how he intends to handle this change, as it obviously causes the problem you are seeing. For the moment, you have two workarounds - see the 3rd and 4th dot points of the "Mitigation" paragraph in the link above.

To summarise, Windows 8 no longer allows an application to set file associations, and you have to set them via the Default Programs Control Panel, or Windows Explorer - this obviously breaks the file association functionality in Zoom and every other Windows application that has the function. It's a continued dumbing down of the file association feature, that Microsoft started in Vista, continued on with Windows 7, and now has taken a step further with Windows 8 - it is also an idiotic decision on their part.

Regards.

ehat

[napaHouk]

To ehathgepiurhe,

Thanks a lot for detailed response. In that case I'll try mentioned methods of assocoation.
It seems that windows developers to increase security level just do it like "there is no way to change something - no problem".
While using Win 8 I've found one more "feature" like confirmation of any copy/move operation with files. It's very annoying.
Good luck with resolving that problems guys!

With best regards,

Dmitry.

[ehathgepiurhe]

Hi Dmitry,

I had a quick chat to bLight about it a couple of hours ago - he needs to work out what changes he needs to make to Zoom to support the new file association model in Windows 8. He asked me to enter it into the bug tracker so he doesn't forget (which I have done, #426 refers).


Oh, and unrelated to the file association issue but also Win 8 related (and mentioned above in previous posts in this thread), I also asked him about the issue of the DVD decoders being removed by Microsoft from Windows 8, unless you pay for the Windows Media Center update (my posts #4 and #15 above refer specifically). He believes it only applies to the decoders, not the navigator - which if correct, is good for Zoom users who play DVD's.

I must overcome my laziness and get a Win 8 test system setup, so I can start checking some of this stuff for myself...

ehat

[ehathgepiurhe]

For anyone interested in Win 8, Koroush Ghazi (of TweakGuides.com) has released v1 of his TweakGuides Tweaking Companion for Windows 8 (to go alongside the Companions for XP, Vista and Seven):
http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

His guides are typically very detailed, and this one looks to be no exception. Recommended if you are looking to jump into Win 8, or have already done so, but just want to learn more about it. There is a Deluxe version (payware) available that comes with some extra features, but the regular (and free) version is perfectly fine (download link is under the 'Regular Edition' heading).

(And I still need to confirm if the DVD navigator is included with Win 8, sans the Media Center update - since bLight said he thought the navigator was still included, I have seen a couple of conflicting reports that state it isn't.)

ehat